MONROE - Members of the Historic Preservation Commission struggled with signs of the times Tuesday - as downtown business owners use more backlighted and A-frame sandwich-board signs to attract customers.
The commission voted 3 to 1 to allow Russ and Nadine Brown, owners of Pancho and Lefty's Outlaw Grill on the Square, to retain a backlit sign previously mounted to the building at their second location on 18th Avenue, and to change the business name on the sign.
Sue Disch, secretary of the commission, voted against the motion, arguing for consistency in applying the commission's historic preservation guidelines. The commission had disallowed other businesses, including Minhas Craft Brewery, from erecting backlit signs, and this sign should not be grandfathered in, she said.
"New business, new sign makes grandfathering go away," she said.
But according to Dave Haroldson, vice-president, wording in the guidelines allows for some backlit signs and does not ban them completely.
Having a backlit sign on a business that is a "block off the Square makes sense," said Commissioner Marshall (Bub) Zwygart, who said he made construction employees work around his Century 21 Real Estate business sign during a facade reconstruction, knowing that, if the sign came down, it would not be allowed back up.
Rich Maliszewski, representing the Monroe Theatre Guild, said he was called to attend the commission meeting to discuss the theater's new backlit marquee. That sign was approved unanimously because backlighting is historically unique to that particular purpose of the building as a theater.
"Historically, theaters were lit," said Haroldson.
Maliszewski explained the uniqueness of the sign, on which only the message and letters are backlit. The sign is expected to be lit during events and weekend shows, on days of ticket sales prior to a show - and only until about 10 p.m.
However, signs permits are separate from facade permits, Zwygart said.
"(Putting up) a new facade doesn't mean you can sign it anyway you want," he added.
The topic of downtown sandwich board signs - typically self-supporting, A-frame structures placed on the sidewalk - was left for discussion and possible action at a future meeting. That decision came after a lengthily discussion about city permits, historic preservation appropriateness, safety and effectiveness for businesses. Building inspector Rex Henke said many such downtown signs have not been permitted through the city clerk's office - examples of which include directional signs standing off-premises. And, he added, some cities have banned sidewalk signs as a potential liability.
According to Rex Ewald, city attorney, the public safety aspect of the signage would come under the permitting process, which has not been followed.
Several downtown business owners say their sidewalk signs are effective in drawing people to their stores, according to Commissioner Jan Lefevre. Lefevre said she witnessed two people talking about discovering a business located off the Square after seeing its sandwich board sign on the corner.
"A lot of businesses downtown and off the Square struggle," (to draw attention to their location), she said.
Disch agreed that businesses have a difficult time drawing customers off the Square, but one difference among the many signs is that some are in front of their business, while others are off-premises.
"I understand the need (for the signs),"Zwygart said. "But it's off-premise advertising," which is not allowed under the commission's guidelines.
Zwygart said businesses off of the Square need to mount store signs perpendicular to buildings so people can see them from the Square.
Lefevre said she was not against sandwich-board signs because they are effective for businesses, but would prefer a standardized look for them.
She also suggested locating way-finding signs at the Square corners for businesses off the Square.
The commission voted 3 to 1 to allow Russ and Nadine Brown, owners of Pancho and Lefty's Outlaw Grill on the Square, to retain a backlit sign previously mounted to the building at their second location on 18th Avenue, and to change the business name on the sign.
Sue Disch, secretary of the commission, voted against the motion, arguing for consistency in applying the commission's historic preservation guidelines. The commission had disallowed other businesses, including Minhas Craft Brewery, from erecting backlit signs, and this sign should not be grandfathered in, she said.
"New business, new sign makes grandfathering go away," she said.
But according to Dave Haroldson, vice-president, wording in the guidelines allows for some backlit signs and does not ban them completely.
Having a backlit sign on a business that is a "block off the Square makes sense," said Commissioner Marshall (Bub) Zwygart, who said he made construction employees work around his Century 21 Real Estate business sign during a facade reconstruction, knowing that, if the sign came down, it would not be allowed back up.
Rich Maliszewski, representing the Monroe Theatre Guild, said he was called to attend the commission meeting to discuss the theater's new backlit marquee. That sign was approved unanimously because backlighting is historically unique to that particular purpose of the building as a theater.
"Historically, theaters were lit," said Haroldson.
Maliszewski explained the uniqueness of the sign, on which only the message and letters are backlit. The sign is expected to be lit during events and weekend shows, on days of ticket sales prior to a show - and only until about 10 p.m.
However, signs permits are separate from facade permits, Zwygart said.
"(Putting up) a new facade doesn't mean you can sign it anyway you want," he added.
The topic of downtown sandwich board signs - typically self-supporting, A-frame structures placed on the sidewalk - was left for discussion and possible action at a future meeting. That decision came after a lengthily discussion about city permits, historic preservation appropriateness, safety and effectiveness for businesses. Building inspector Rex Henke said many such downtown signs have not been permitted through the city clerk's office - examples of which include directional signs standing off-premises. And, he added, some cities have banned sidewalk signs as a potential liability.
According to Rex Ewald, city attorney, the public safety aspect of the signage would come under the permitting process, which has not been followed.
Several downtown business owners say their sidewalk signs are effective in drawing people to their stores, according to Commissioner Jan Lefevre. Lefevre said she witnessed two people talking about discovering a business located off the Square after seeing its sandwich board sign on the corner.
"A lot of businesses downtown and off the Square struggle," (to draw attention to their location), she said.
Disch agreed that businesses have a difficult time drawing customers off the Square, but one difference among the many signs is that some are in front of their business, while others are off-premises.
"I understand the need (for the signs),"Zwygart said. "But it's off-premise advertising," which is not allowed under the commission's guidelines.
Zwygart said businesses off of the Square need to mount store signs perpendicular to buildings so people can see them from the Square.
Lefevre said she was not against sandwich-board signs because they are effective for businesses, but would prefer a standardized look for them.
She also suggested locating way-finding signs at the Square corners for businesses off the Square.